'דאָס איז וואָס איר זענט באטראכט ווי אַ פּראָפּאַגאַנדיסט און נישט אַ זשורנאַליסט'

In an interview that went off the rails right from the start, former New York Timesניט
media reporter Ben Smith tried to pin down Fox News Channel host Tucker Carlson on whether Carlson—host of the highest-rated show in cable news—is racist, leading Carlson to fire back at Smith: “this is why you’re considered a propagandist and not a journalist.”

Smith, who fidgeted with his written notes and at times seemed more focused on his questions than Carlson’s answers, conducted the live interview as part of “Signal and Noise: Polarization and Trust in News,” a pre-launch event for Smith’s forthcoming news site Semafor. It was, as one viewer put it, “painful to watch.”

Carlson, who appeared remotely, arrived smiling and quickly deflected suggestions that Tucker Carlson Tonight was a show sending coded messages nighly to racists. “I’m a Christian and so I think God made everybody and therefore everybody is of equal value in his eyes,” Carlson said, noting that “there is a lot of criticism you could level at me,” but not that he targets Black people. “One hundred percent of the people I am mad at are well-educated white liberals.”

But Smith clearly came prepped for a confrontation, accusing Carlson of popularizing the white supremacist “language of replacement theory,” noting that the belief that immigrants and racial minorities are “replacing” white Americans—an ideology that has been linked to recent mass shootings. “I’m not suggesting some straight line between words and actions,” Smith said. “But it is a phrase that has been used by mass shooters. I wonder if you don’t have any regret popularizing that?”

Carlson fired back “this is why you are considered correctly a propagandist and not a journalist. Because I just explained in detail with total sincerity what I believe. You ignored it and invoked mass shooters.”

Smith attempted to change subjects as the two spoke over each other, with Carlson telling Smith “this is revealing how ridiculous you are and I think it is evident to any fair person watching.”